I think if people really knew what was going on they would be mortified!! I guess they would rather bury their head in the sand and make themselves feel better!

Planned Parenthood has contributed to reducing abortion by providing meaningful sex education and contraceptives to our communities.

Through their efforts, and other family planning groups, the number of abortions in California has greatly decreased.

If anyone wants to reduce abortions to near zero, help promote sex education programs that actually work and make contraception widely available.

How many of you know and understand the Right of Coscience Act. This is a law that allows our Dr.'s and all health care people to refuse to do a procedure that is against their morals and/or against their religious beliefs. Sometime with in the next couple of weeks President Obama plans to sign and executive order to rescind this law. I do not know how every one feels but I feel the Health Care Servers have the right to refuse to do certain procedures on a patient. This is another way to get parts of FOCA in the back door. If you do not believe me call your representative and ask them Please, Please send and e-mail, write a letter and ask President Obama not to sign such an order. We must speak up to save our country.

comment#2.."make contraception widely available"??? do you mean CONTRACEPTIVES...widely available which by the way I think you can get in any drug store and gas station..They only work if used!

Mr. Monday- Planned Parenthood is the biggest promoter and performer of abortions in the United States of America.

To hmmmm:

Thanks for the correction, quite right.

So far as the second part of your message, rubbers are widely available, but not birth control pills, RU486, etc.

If you meet the financial need requirements (low income, no health insurance, etc.), young women can get a year's supply of contraceptives for free from Planned Parenthood. But, most young women don't know that.

Re: "They only work if used", hence the need for meaningful and comprehensive sex education.

Nothing is for free. Tax dollars will go to pay for the contraceptives.

Do you know what 86 means in the restuarant business? It means to throw it away. RU486--Are you for throwing it away? I sure hope not.

Meaningful and comprehensive sex education does exist. It just doesn't work. You are not going to change the behavioral patterns of people until you change their hearts. Hearts change when people allow the One that Created them to lead their lives!

Re Jon Monday post of 3/6, 9:57 am: Right on! Here are some supporting stats from the Guttmacher Institute:

“The rate of abortion in the United States is at its lowest level since 1974…” However, “large disparities persist, with Hispanic and black women obtaining abortions at rates three and five times higher, respectively, than non-Hispanic white women.” “Previous Guttmacher research has found that unintended pregnancy and abortion rates are also increasing among poor and low-income women.”

Also, “A large part of the decline in abortion among teens—which began long before abstinence-only sex education programs began receiving federal funding—is attributable to increased use of contraceptives and use of more effective methods.” www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/2008/09/23/index.html

Regards

Re: A doctor who " performed over 10,000 abortions and volunteered to perform one for a video; when he viewed the video, he walked out never to perform an abortion again."

So, while performing 10,000 abortions, he never noticed what he was doing? Interesting.

Regards

Yes, Mr. Monday, it is widely known by girls that planned parenthood gives out birth control pills, I knew this as a freshman at FUHS.

Abstinence goes back to good parenting and having religion! Yes, I know, girls spread their legs for anything, but that is because their parents tolerate it. Just like the excuse, I want my kids to drink at home so they don't drive drunk. If you condone the act then why not do it.

Planned Parenthood is an abortion center that our tax dollars pay for. I think that we need to show the live abortion video at school during sex education. They show videos with teenagers doing crack and what happens afterward. Why not show you what happens during an abortion and then show what pain the woman goes through for the rest of her life knowing she killed her child. Oh wait, if we do that than Planned Parenthood, A FOR PROFIT COMPANY, would go out of business.

Telling girls to go get on the pill? Arnt you aware there are other reasons to wear a condom than preventing pregnancy!? Thats not the worst thing that can happen! How about an incurable disease?

Regarding "Can you think of a baby who, if given the option to live or die, would choose to never be born no matter what the circumstances?

The question is meaningless. A fetus in the womb has no capability to articulate an answer to the question. After being born and gaining language, a child's answer would be obvious, however irrelevant that might be.

Regards

To mom:

Quite right, condoms plus pills is better.

Of course, abstinence is safer still, but studies have shown that's not going to happen in most cases. Of all my friends and business associates, in 61 years, I know of only one couple who were both virgins when they married (about 1974). Both went to UC Berkeley, and are the most adamant atheists and the most moral people I know.

To 31 year old woman:

From the Planned Parenthood website:

“Planned Parenthood Federation of America is a not-for-profit organization. Planned Parenthood is the nation’s leading sexual and reproductive health care provider and advocate serving women, men, teens, and families. We do more than any other organization in the United States to prevent unintended pregnancies [and hence greatly reduce the number of abortions] and protect women’s health and safety.”

I just attended a presentation given by a representative of Planned Parenthood and they explained that 90% of their activities are about pre-natal care, STD testing, birth control, and other sexual health issues, 8% are abortion services [which is still legal in our county], and 2% men's sexual health issues.

John the B,
The reason Dr. Bourne stopped, according to what I read about him, is because he never realized what he was doing. Much like people who promote abortions and Planned Parenthood today.
Not everyone is able to realize this since the are so ignorant about abortion and so intent on promoting Party agenda.

Jon,
how would you suppose PP educated these young kids from preventing the spread of AIDS since the HIV virus passes through the naturally occcuring 1.0 micron hole in a latex condom?

Jon, just to let you know RU486 is not considered a contracetive, since infact it does not prevent an egg from being fertilized, ie conception. It's intended use is to perform an abortion by introducing a synthetic steroid that creates a massive hormonal imbalance in the womans body. Because of this, the womans body is tricked into depriving the child of its mothers life giving nutrition and womb and is purged out with the next cycle. You fail to mention that Planned Parenthood ( un-parenthood?) is the biggest promoter of promiscuity by providing an education about sex from the world view that premaritial sex should be promoted among teens and couples outside of marriage. PP themselves perform thousands of abortions daily. And as for John the Baptist, you promote PP and the like by provideing stats that are slanted. Overall pregnancies and abortions are up especially among teens. You cited that PP and Guttmacer abortions are at an all time low. The fact is that "Method failure "is down but user failure is up. That is to say that pregnancies from method failures like Jons rubber breaking are down. But pregnancies from user failures, ie John forgetting to use it are up. Planned Parenthood provides meaningless and immoral "sex education". Jon if in fact you truly want to reduce abortions I have a novel concept, how about promoting LIFE. By speaking out against abortion and PP you actually give the message that you are against the act of abortion. You say you are for lowering abortions yet you promote Planned Parenhood, the biggest provider of abortions in this country. That's Newspeak and Doublethink and you know it.

to 31 year old woman, regarding "Abstinence goes back to good parenting and having religion!":

Yes, we have that on good authority from Sarah Palin. I guess Mississippi, in the heart of the Bible Belt, having the highest teen pregnancy rate in the nation, is an exception to the rule.

Regards

to Doublethink: Regarding post #14. I still am amazed that a doctor could have performed 10,000 abortions, or any other single medical procedure, while being totally oblivious to what he was doing. i believe there must be something more to the story.

Regarding your post #16: If the Guttmacher stats I provided are slanted, please provide the correct data and your source.

Also note my post #17.

Regards

See, that's what all you liberals always do--use facts.

Well, I'm here to tell you that I have it on good authority God wants us arguing with each other and judging each other. It's the Christian way.

And what about unused fertility embryos being used to find cures for illnesses. I'll bet the embryo would say, "put me back in the freezer" where I can do some good.

Planned Parenthood can tell you all the BS they want. There is a group of students from UCLA doing a study on PP, they send a girl in who says she is underage and states that she is pregnant and the father is over 18. In one undercover story the girl is 15 and the boy is 23, the staff tells her to lie about her age so her boyfriend does not get in trouble. They don't advise her of adoption, instead they tell her that most teenagers they talk to get abortions. You can find the article all over the internet. This isn't the first instance, a PP in Arizona has been in trouble twice for the same thing. Isn't PP supposed to be there to help? I don't know of any medical facility that would be able to get away with not turning in a statutory rape, except PP.

Who ever said Sarah Palin was a role model Mom? At least she raised her daughter to not have her child sucked into a sink.

I think anyone who uses abortion as a means of birth control is disgusting.

I do not understand why there are certain people who want to constantly intellectualize away truth, life and purity of heart. All that is pure, they want to cast it off as part of the problem. All that is truth, they want to cast off as lies. All that is life giving and life breathing, they want to cast off as life taking and life suffocating. True freedom they want to cast off as chains. All that is pure and true, they want to snuff out. Beautiful innocent unborn children's lives taken away they want to intellectualize as "not enough education" "not enough birth control" "not enough information" "not enough". How about just letting it rest for what it is and sitting with the fact that innocents lose their young lives daily at the hands of doctors and their own mothers. How about just sitting with that? How about taking your religious card that you shove in there to intellectualize and over rationalize the hell out of people who want to preserve babies' lives? How do you feel about your environment? How do you feel about saving trees? How is it that you have all been sucked into the lie that the environment is more worth preserving and more valuable than human life? And for the frozen embryo remark, your life began as an embryo. Would you prefer to be used as a research project or to have the freedom to live your life? Do you think that you have always been a grown human being or do you realize you were a tiny embryo too?

What should the penalty be for the mothers who commit the infantcide?

Death?

Life in prison without the possibility of parole?

Pubic stoning?

To Just Asking
Jon Monday, J the B, et al

There is a Judgement Day coming, whether you choose to believe it or not doesn't matter, It IS going to come and we will ALL be held accountable for our actions in this life.

To Ironic, re post #21: Every human being started life as a fertilized egg, but not every fertilized egg becomes a human being.—in fact, far from it. “…As many as one in five pregnancies (or 20%) end in natural miscarriage. Some are even willing to put this number as high as 50% because so many early miscarriages happen before a woman even realizes she is pregnant.”
www.pregnancy-info.net/miscarriage_overview.html

Also, there is no scientific or biblical basis for declaring that a fertilized egg or pre-viable fetal tissue is a human being. At best, it is a potential human being. Abortion is a divisive issue and there are honest differences of opinion among religious groups. http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_hist1.htm

Regards

I believe God would want us to go out and kill those mothers who have abortions this instant, right now today, rather than give them life in prison. That way He could get his hands on them sooner and send them to hell as quickly as possible. Get them to where all sinners are going that much sooner.

Uh oh, Did I say that? Wait a minute, I'm a sinner too. Not an abortion sinner, but a sinner nonetheless. Kind of a Pharisee sinner, where the other guys sin is worse than mine. But still, if God is going to send other sinners to hell maybe He'll do the same with me. Maybe we should let Him figure out what to do with the woman who has an abortion.

As for frozen embryos, the ones belonging to the parents that have become pregnant are either tossed out, killed, not used or what ever word you prefer, or used to try to find cures for illness. The choice of being allowed to live life is not one of the options. So if I was an embryo, I'd say do something that might help others, rather than just letting me sit there and freeze.

To Pink, mom, and everybody,

Let's all agree that it would be a wonderful thing if abortion could be viritually eliminated. No one sets out with the goal to have an abortion or to perform one. Planned Parenthood highest priority is to eliminate the driving force behind abortion: unintended pregnacy.

We may not agree that it should still be OK for cases of rape, incest, and dire threats to the health of the mother, but I think that's a matter of choice of the woman.

No one wants abortion to be used as birth control. I really mean no one.

The best way to reduce abortions is birth control and sex education. If you have religious objections to even this, which is your right, don't use birth control. But for a vast majority of Americans (Christian and others), there is no moral objection to birth control.

I'm all for reducing abortion to nearly zero - with the exceptions noted above. I think there's a practical way of doing it, and would call on all abortion foes to look at what would really reduce abortion - rather than trying to outlaw it.

To "Just Asking", there already is a penalty for infaticide (the killing of infants already born)- it is called homicide. As far as abortion goes (the killing of an infant not yet born- although many times an infant is born alive and he-she is left to die) is not illegal so there should not be a penalty for it. As far as the lifelong penalty for abortion, it is far worse than any sentence. I have personally known and spoken to women who have had abortion(s) and they are absolutely wrecked by their regretful decision. As a man, you will never know what it is like to end the life of your own child. There is an abortion clinic that performs late term abortions in Pennsylvania with a crisis pregnancy center right across the street. The nurse in the center always tells her patients, you have 3 choices and ALL will be a life long decision. One, keep the baby. Two, adopt the baby out. Three, end the baby's life. I really like the way she put this because many young gals do not understand that abortion is ALSO a LIFE LONG decision with life long consequences. It does not end with the baby's life. Why is this? Because once a life is formed, one cannot just do away with life.
To John the Baptist: when does life begin? Is that what you are arguing? Sorry, but life does begin at conception. Nothing but life continues to replicate itself as does a conceived embryo- scientific. The Bible? John 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." Not every fertilized egg becomes human? As a woman who has had two miscarriages, I know that. Been there done that. The topic here is ABORTION- which means the doctor and mother TAKE the life of the baby, not the mother LOSES her baby.
To "Holier Than Thou"- you consider someone that wants ALL babies to be born and not be killed "holier than thou"? Why are you so angry with people who want children to have the freedom to live out their lives like you have right now? I believe life begins at conception and I do not believe there should be embryos frozen and embryos in petri dishes in the first place.
Jon Monday- have you ever been to Planned Parenthood? I myself was a patient there for years as a child. I know what goes on there. My father was given the advice to have me aborted since my mother was a young unmarried teenager when she became pregnant with me. Her friends couldn't believe she didn't go and just have an abortion and get it over with. Well, here I am thankful and grateful my mom gave me life and that my parents did not listen to good ol Planned Parenthood. Jon- teens have access all over the darn place for birth control- I did. It is well known you can get free pills there- not a secret by any means. Do not forget Jon one simple fact- Planned Parenthood is the NUMBER ONE PROMOTER AND PERFORMER of abortions in this country. You cannot argue facts. Facts speak for themselves. Planned Parenthood advised my parents the ending of my life, just as they do to anyone that is a teenager with an "unplanned" "unwanted" pregnancy. You can get pregnant on the pill Jon- happens all the time. As far as you saying that no one wants to use abortion as birth control. Jon, you are wrong- there are women that do want to use it as such and do. Who is going to stand up for these little defenseless babies? Once a woman becomes pregnant, it is not just her body anymore. There is another life that needs her.

God bless you ma'am, but I'm not angry. I'd say the person who wrote that women who have abortions should be put to death is a tad angry, as well as some others here.

Abortion is wrong for me. Very wrong. I thank God I was never faced with such a decision. I hope I know what I would have done, but I've messed up with other things so I can't say with absolute certainty just what I would have done. And that's why I can envision someone else making a serious, serious mistake. I favor God judging him/her as we know He will in His time and way.

But you are being used. Abortion, guns and gays are issues used to divide us, rather than what is so desperately needed in our country and the world--unity. In my bible Christ speaks of unity more than any other single issue.

I can also see why you feel about abortion as you do.

Thank you Holier Than Thou for your comment. I do not feel I am being used. I agree that these issues do divide people. They divide people because we are given the beautiful freedom of making decisions and you can choose what is right and what is wrong. It is not a lot to understand that people who believe the killing of an unborn child is wrong to not want to be united with those that believe it is right and vice versa. There is a lot of talk about "judging". Who said I or anyone that is against abortion is "judging"? As human beings with consciences, we have the ability to decipher what we believe is right and what we believe is wrong. This is not a judgement. A judgement is telling someone they are going to hell. Standing up for unborn babies that have no voice is not judging. There is no judegment being made in saying that every child deserves to be born.

"It is not a lot to understand that people who believe the killing of an unborn child is wrong to not want to be united with those that believe it is right and vice versa."

But see, we are all united. We all are brothers and sisters in Christ. Christ hung out with sinners, lepers, all sorts of people who were rejected and isolated by society.

I can't speak for God, but based on the example His Son tried to set of kindness, forgiveness and tolerance, I'd say He's more interested in us being one than being separate.

And yes, when you say someone is wrong, that is judging. At least according to Daniel Webster. And I don't think he had an opinion about abortion one way or the other, so he has to be considered neutral.

The issue of abortion helps me to understand how the Israelis and Palestinians can have such a hard time agreeing on anything.

to Ironic, regarding your post #27: No, I'm not arguing when life begins. The point I'm trying to make is that if a fertilized egg or pre-viable fetus is a human being, then a miscarriage is at least manslaughter, if not murder. And if it's through no fault of the woman, it must have been God's will, making God the most prolific abortionist of all. That's not a concept I'm willing to accept.

As I pointed out in my post #24, there are many Christian denominations, such as Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), Presbyterian Church (USA), United Methodist Church, and others who do not feel as you do about the matter.

I respect your right to your opinion, but I also feel there are valid arguments to the contrary.

Regards

Regards

to Ironic, regarding your post #16: I'm still awaiting your correction to the Guttmacher stats I provided.

Regards

Holier Than Thou- Jesus did not hang out with sinners to become a sinner, to "tolerate" and so forth. He hung out with them with a very specific purpose in mind- to save them from sin. He asked them to turn away from their wicked ways by giving them examples of sin, healing them and telling them to "sin no more". Abortion is just another example of our sinful nature.
John The Baptist- your statements are rather obnoxious. Manslaughter and murder means there was some type of violence inflicted on the baby to cause death (can we say abortion?). By the way, by your definition of miscarriage, a heart attack is also manslaughter. God is the Author of life. He creates life and takes life in His perfect timing as He deems fit. As the Author of life, He has the authority. We do not have the authority because we do not create it. As one of God's creations, I submit to His will not always understanding it, but not needing to understand it for I am not God.
As far as other denominations having another opinion, this fact does not take away from God's perfect Truth. His Truth does not change based on current sin.

To John the Baptist- the post you are referring to is from Doublethink, not Ironic. Not me!

Of course Christ didn't hang out with sinners to become a sinner. He was without sin. He hung out with them to teach us that our human condition is one of constant struggle. We ALL fail at some time at something. Maybe you are the exception.

These posts are not about how we fail as human beings. The topic is abortion.

John do you view abortion in the "fetus" stage wrong or immoral? By "pre-viable" I am assuming you mean that it would die if taken out of the environment of the womb. Right?

to pre-viable: I should have said earlier that I'm opposed to abortion on principle. The question is what to do about it. My views are pretty much along the same lines as Jon Monday's, stressing education and contraception.

You ask if I "view abortion in the "fetus" stage wrong or immoral?" My answer is, it depends. I consider abortion as a means of birth control to be immoral. I take no exception to a woman terminating a pregnancy if in the best interests of her existing children, if she is financially unable to provide for the child-to-be, if her life is threatened, or in cases of incest or rape.

Regarding my use of the term "pre-viable, your assumption is correct. As I stated in an earlier post, there is no scientific or biblical basis for declaring that a fertilized egg or fetal tissue is a human being. Therefore abortion of a pre-viable fetus. does not constitute murder.

Jewish law (Halacha) closely approximates my belief as follows: "...a baby...becomes a full-fledged human being when the head emerges from the womb. Before then, the fetus is considered a 'partial life." /www.religioustolerance.org/jud_abor.htm However, I prefer the term "potential life" vice "partial life"

Regards

to Ironic: My apologies regarding my post #34.

to Doublethink:I'm still awaiting your correction to the Guttmacher stats I provided.

Regards

Sin does not start at abortion. Sin begins in the heart. When we desire to choose pleasure over the Lord's commands, that is sin. When we desire to have conveniences that we choose for ourselves, despite the fact that it snuffs out another life, that's sin. I am very pro-choice. I just believe that the choice comes a few minutes before a child is even conceived, not afterward.

John just for clarity, you are principally against abortion if it is used as birth control. "I consider abortion as a means of birth control to be immoral", but the exception to this principal is if the mothers life is in danger, if it is in the best interest for her other children that have already been born, if she cannot afford to have a child, or if she has been raped? correct?

to birth control: Yes, that's correct. I see no justification for using abortion as a birth control method: there are much safer options available. Otherwise, I believe that abortion in the cases I listed is not immoral, neither should it be illegal.

Also, I didn't specifically mention late term abortion. I oppose that, unless abortion is absolutely required to save the life of the mother, because that would involve a viable fetus. It should still be the option of the woman in question to sacrifice her life in favor of the fetus.

Regards

One of the comments made were"athesists the most moral people I know" perhaps I am not informed on the subject but if one has no higher power where do you get moral values from?

to Hmmmm...

My quote was about two particular people who are atheists and who have high moral standards, and was not a comment about all atheists.

Morality and religion are two different things and are not necessarily dependent on each other.

Without religion, people can, and do, have a moral code that defines right and wrong. It's wrong to steal, wrong to kill. These don't require a God who judges you to believe that it's good for society and individuals to hold to these standards.

In fact, I have great respect for those who hold to high moral standards without a belief in God, as it shows that they are just standing on principle - not a fear of some judgment in the afterlife.

On the other hand, we see many examples of people who believe in God, but have very low moral standards (Rev. Ted Haggard, Sen. Larry Craig, Rev. Jim Baker, hundreds of Catholic priests, to name a few).

Jon, there are many people who believe in God and have principles not because of fear of the afterlife, but because they willingly and lovingly submit to their Creator.

to Mom of lots...

OK, I have no problem with that. And I didn't mean to imply that religious people, such as you and me, only are moral only out of fear of God's judgment.

I'd like to ask you to acknowledge that people can be moral without a religious context.

Jon, I do acknowledge that there are people who are not religious who are moral. For instance, I personally know an atheist that is moral because he believes you make your own life better and more fulfilling by being moral. So, yes I will acknowledge that, however, let us also agree that there are those who do not believe in God who do whatever they please no matter who they hurt (even themselves) because in the end, who cares?

To Doublethink:

Your statement about the AIDS virus being able to pass through condom latex made me wonder if it was true. After a little research, here's what I found:

The argument over the effectiveness of condoms dates back to the early 1990s. Some argue that the pores in latex were larger than the viral particles, allowing them to pass through.

The data on the pore size is for latex gloves. Latex condoms are manufactured in a different process, making them less porous. The National Institutes of Health (NIH) found that, using electron scanning microscopy, there are no pores visible on condoms, whereas HIV can be visualized this way, meaning that there are no HIV size pores for the particles to pass through.

Also, HIV is an intracellular virus, not a free-floating particle. The cells it has infected have to pass through the pores, and condoms are made to stop these very cells!

to Mom of Lots:

Yes, I will acknowledge that - some people, religious or not, will do whatever they want, no matter who it hurts.

But, what is especially troubling for me is people who profess to believe in God, but behave that badly anyway.

To Leah,

I'm sorry, but the information in your original post is a bit of a hoax - some facts mixed in with a healthy bunch of fabrication.

Dr. Aleck Bourne (4 June 1886 – 30 December 1974) did give an interview in 1967 to the London Express, where he talked about his opposition to liberal abortion laws.

Dr. Bourne's name became known in 1938, when he was prosecuted for performing an abortion on a 14 year old girl who had been raped by a group of British soldiers near London. He was tried and found not guilty, and his case became the basis for laws that legalized abortion in cases where the mental health of the woman was a concern.

Up to that time, abortions were legal only in cases of concern for the mother's health.

In 1967, the year he gave the interview (nothing to do with a video), he became outspoken about the "Abortion Act 1967", which he felt went too far in liberalizing abortion.

I can find no reference to Dr. Bourne backing away from his stand that early abortions should be legal in cases where the mental (or physical) health of the mother is threatened.

Please provide alternative informtion -if there is any.

Jon, every single fact in my article is true, correct, and verifiable. The ONLY fact about Dr. Alec Bourne that I provided was his direct quote in paragraph two. The first paragraph does NOT refer to him and neither do any of the other paragraphs. I NEVER stated that Dr. Alec Bourne backed away from his stand that early abortions should be legal. I simply stated that a woman that has the off chance of her baby not dying from abortion has always been overjoyed that it was not killed by Dr. Bourne (HIS statement). Pretty neat ha? Each paragraph is a fact of its own. The doctor from the first paragraph that walked away from ever performing another abortion is referred to in the movie "Silent Scream". I should have began my second paragraph with, "Another doctor, Dr. Alec Bourne..." I apologize for the confusion. One unclear statement is not a "healthy bit of fabrication" Jon. I am a very conscientious writer and with my history as a writer, I would think you would know that I would never skew facts using semanitcs to try and confuse or sway my readers. So I do not appreciate you undermining and referring to my article as "hoax" worthy.

says: i do not condone abortions AT ALL!!! I believe that if you are not in the situation in the first place, there would be no reason to get an abortion. take responsibility for your actions i mean there are plenty of ways to prevent pregnancy and gettin an abortion is just selfich and in-humane.